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Fishing Talk => Fishing Talk => : Latimeria December 31, 2017, 09:17:26 AM
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For you guys who are looking to catch or target certain species of shark from the surf, please make sure they are not any protected species. It has come to my attention that wardens are aware of the recent activity and has given warnings to people who appear to be targeting species other than Sevengill and Soupfin shark.
You, the angler, are responsible for your fishing activities and you, the angler, will have to pay the consequences if you break any fish and game laws. I just wanted you to be aware of this as it has just come to my attention and Prehistoric Soul is just a platform to share your stories, tackle, techniques and have a good group of people to big game fish from the surf.
Thanks for understanding and I hope for a great 2018 fishing season for everyone on the boards!
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Good looking out.
It certainly does not help when you have a dozen people congregate in one area in plain view. We got checked twice Thursday night and we're laying low.
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I can only speak for myself and I only target species that are not protected. According to Chip my gear couldn't handle anything else. ;)
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I can only speak for myself and I only target species that are not protected. According to Chip my gear couldn't handle anything else. ;)
You're safe Binh ;D
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8)
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For you guys who are looking to catch or target certain species of shark from the surf, please make sure they are not any protected species. It has come to my attention that wardens are aware of the recent activity and has given warnings to people who appear to be targeting species other than Sevengill and Soupfin shark.
Can you provide any details about what the wardens consider to be evidence of targeting?
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As the guy that had a face to face with a DFW warden late Friday night, here’s some of what I came w away with...The targeting part is not the thing they can pin on someone although if you have prior knowledge of it being a spot where whites have been landed it doesn’t bode well for you. The letter of the law that could be your detriment is the one that was that states that “once you have knowledge that it is a white on your line you must immediatly cut your line”. This means immediatly without doing anything in between. This means pausing to take any pictures! The only pictures that could be OK would be have to be taken by a third party of a release being performed and they couldn’t be of the shark being dragged back down from anywhere but already in the water as that would indicate the line was not cut immediatly but dragged out of the water after it was identified as a white. PM me with questions about the encounter as opposed to out here.
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I know everybody has the same unanswered questions and wants to respect the rules and regulations. That's why I just sent this email to the Director of the DFW asking for answers and clarifications to our questions. Hopefully we'll get an answers soon 8)
Hi,
My name is Chip Dorman and recent developments have created a number of questions for myself and fellow shark/ray fishermen.
Lately, a number of us have hooked up with Great White Sharks while fishing for 7 Gills, Soupfins, Makos, Threashers, and Rays. We all know that Great Whites are a protected species. We all know that it is illegal to target them, and we all know that you are supposed to release them immediately once you have identified them.
Given the number of Great Whites that have been caught recently from Orange County all up the coast to LA and Ventura and the increased presence of DFW wardens warning shark anglers about targeting Great Whites, many of us are unsure of what we are supposed to do.
Specifically:
1. Are there any restrictions beyond normal DFW regulations as to the size or type of fishing equipment and leaders that would constitute targeting?
2. Are there any restriction beyond normal DFW regulations as to the size or type of baits used that would constitute targeting?
3. Since we are fishing from shore, mostly at night, it's virtually impossible to identify a fish until you have it in very shallow water or on the sand. If we identify a fish as being a Great White in this situation, are we supposed to cut the lines immediately and then have no further contact with the fish?
4. Wouldn't it be better for the health of the fish to remove the hook and leader from its mouth or untangle the leader from around the fish since many times sharks will turn and twist and get the line wrapped all around them?
5. If we land a Great White and remove the hook and leader, or if we cut the line close to shore, what do we do if we can see the fish is struggling? We've all caught fish that put up great fights, but required assistance in the surf for a couple of minutes to recuperate before they could swim off on their own. Are we allowed to assist the fish or are we supposed to watch a fish possibly die because we are legally prevented from touching the fish?
6. The vast majority of us practice CPR. Catch, Photo, Release. The usual photo is a picture of the person who caught the fish kneeling next to it. Would we be in violation of not releasing the fish immediately if we posed for a photo or are we limited to just a photo taken while we are removing the hook and leader?
7. Kayaking out big baits with higher capacity reels and short boat style rods is another question. A number of shark fishermen will do this to target larger/pelagic sharks like Mako and Thresher that don't ordinarily come into shallow water that aren't reachable by hand casing. Is using this type of equipment or technique evidence of targeting?
8. Finally, what about recent activity? Is fishing in a spot where Great Whites have been caught recently evidence of targeting? Even with all of its vast resources, California really has a relatively small number of surf fishing locations that aren't crowded, especially during the warmer summer months. Most of us fish the same spots because they hold fish and because we can fish them without having to deal with swimmers and surfers. We're not fishing a spot because Great Whites have been caught there, it's because the spot has structure or a food source that attracts all sharks.
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Very good Chip! Hopefully you get more than a cookie cutter response that avoids your very legitimate detailed questions. My guess is they will just send you the code as it is written and not stick their neck out doing any further interpretation of it...hopefully I’m proven wrong 😉🦈
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I know everybody has the same unanswered questions and wants to respect the rules and regulations. That's why I just sent this email to the Director of the DFW asking for answers and clarifications to our questions. Hopefully we'll get an answers soon 8)
Hi,
My name is Chip Dorman and recent developments have created a number of questions for myself and fellow shark/ray fishermen.
Lately, a number of us have hooked up with Great White Sharks while fishing for 7 Gills, Soupfins, Makos, Threashers, and Rays. We all know that Great Whites are a protected species. We all know that it is illegal to target them, and we all know that you are supposed to release them immediately once you have identified them.
Given the number of Great Whites that have been caught recently from Orange County all up the coast to LA and Ventura and the increased presence of DFW wardens warning shark anglers about targeting Great Whites, many of us are unsure of what we are supposed to do.
Specifically:
1. Are there any restrictions beyond normal DFW regulations as to the size or type of fishing equipment and leaders that would constitute targeting?
2. Are there any restriction beyond normal DFW regulations as to the size or type of baits used that would constitute targeting?
3. Since we are fishing from shore, mostly at night, it's virtually impossible to identify a fish until you have it in very shallow water or on the sand. If we identify a fish as being a Great White in this situation, are we supposed to cut the lines immediately and then have no further contact with the fish?
4. Wouldn't it be better for the health of the fish to remove the hook and leader from its mouth or untangle the leader from around the fish since many times sharks will turn and twist and get the line wrapped all around them?
5. If we land a Great White and remove the hook and leader, or if we cut the line close to shore, what do we do if we can see the fish is struggling? We've all caught fish that put up great fights, but required assistance in the surf for a couple of minutes to recuperate before they could swim off on their own. Are we allowed to assist the fish or are we supposed to watch a fish possibly die because we are legally prevented from touching the fish?
6. The vast majority of us practice CPR. Catch, Photo, Release. The usual photo is a picture of the person who caught the fish kneeling next to it. Would we be in violation of not releasing the fish immediately if we posed for a photo or are we limited to just a photo taken while we are removing the hook and leader?
7. Kayaking out big baits with higher capacity reels and short boat style rods is another question. A number of shark fishermen will do this to target larger/pelagic sharks like Mako and Thresher that don't ordinarily come into shallow water that aren't reachable by hand casing. Is using this type of equipment or technique evidence of targeting?
8. Finally, what about recent activity? Is fishing in a spot where Great Whites have been caught recently evidence of targeting? Even with all of its vast resources, California really has a relatively small number of surf fishing locations that aren't crowded, especially during the warmer summer months. Most of us fish the same spots because they hold fish and because we can fish them without having to deal with swimmers and surfers. We're not fishing a spot because Great Whites have been caught there, it's because the spot has structure or a food source that attracts all sharks.
They'll tell you to go fish a different beach. Just like if you're pulling rockfish incidentally when they are offseason, they tell you to fish a different spot where you're likely to not hook any.
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As I said when the initial drone catch posts went around ... only a matter of time until questions come up, and maybe peeps get in trouble.
We all should talk about targeting the legal fish, and we do of course, and I know it's exciting unintentional by-catch, but let's tone down the hype.
Also, seems pretty clear to me before Chips note. If you see what it is, cut the line immediately. The same punitive actions can be taken with BSBs as well ... though we all know pics are taken. Just saying, there's no gray area ... if you have time to pose with a pic, then you had time to cut the line right away. The law will always side with that ruling. Honestly don't know the extent penalties have been dealt for the 'quick pics', but the slack line with tighten the more we show playing with beached beauties. JMHO and $.02 ...
Hopefully Chips note doesn't backfire and the dumbasses in office scratch their heads saying 'gee, didn't think about that ... let's just MLPA that beach and forbid Kayaking baits to save the sharks' ...
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We all should talk about targeting the legal fish, and we do of course, and I know it's exciting unintentional by-catch, but let's tone down the hype.
I was going to stay out of this, but what the hell.................... Comments like "IRS Office", "Taxman Approved Gear", "Landing One of these Beasts", etc. won't help convince anyone they're not being targeted. I don't know about PS, but the wardens up here read SCSF. Had a warden several weeks ago come up to me and say "I see you've had some 50+ fish days this year". Maybe I should remove my picture ;D
Honestly don't know the extent penalties have been dealt for the 'quick pics', but the slack line with tighten the more we show playing with beached beauties.
I got a ticket for 'chumming' back in the early 90's (corn) at Crowley Lake. The fine was $550.00, and said he could have confiscated our gear. That was 25 years ago and I doubt if the fines have gone down :(
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Hopefully Chips note doesn't backfire
This is Chip we're talking about... Odds are good. :o ;D
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Zactly Verne ... 8)
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[quote author=vdisney link=topic=2765.msg22243#msg22243 date=1514982161
I got a ticket for 'chumming' back in the early 90's (corn) at Crowley Lake. The fine was $550.00, and said he could have confiscated our gear. That was 25 years ago and I doubt if the fines have gone down :(
[/quote]
From chumming with corn to snubbing using bait when you light rod?...you’ve come a long way my man 😉😂
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Hopefully Chips note doesn't backfire and the dumbasses in office scratch their heads saying 'gee, didn't think about that ... let's just MLPA that beach and forbid Kayaking baits to save the sharks' ...
Or try to employ gear restrictions like they have for the salmon or trout fishery ie: no hooks bigger than 1/0, no wire leader, or the worst...artificial lures with barbless hooks only...😬
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I think Dave and Verne nailed it.
Making too big of a deal about catching stuff that the regulations say shouldn't be caught (whether agreed with or not) is only going to cause more problems, not make anything better. The really bad part is that the ripple effect from it will end up hurting current shark/ray fishing that well all love and that has made this site/group so great. That's what worries me the most.
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Maybe we should write the president and have him tell the commies to take them off the no target list like the rest of the country did.
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Maybe we should write the president and have him tell the commies to take them off the no target list like the rest of the country did.
Aren't they still Federally protected?
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Maybe we should write the president and have him tell the commies to take them off the no target list like the rest of the country did.
Fricken commies.
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Just use caution, kinda like when your throwing swimbaits late night in protected MLPA areas for big Calicos. 8)
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I think Tim and Verne nailed it.
Making too big of a deal about catching stuff that the regulations say shouldn't be caught (whether agreed with or not) is only going to cause more problems, not make anything better. The really bad part is that the ripple effect from it will end up hurting current shark/ray fishing that well all love and that has made this site/group so great. That's what worries me the most.
Tim?
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I think Tim and Verne nailed it.
Making too big of a deal about catching stuff that the regulations say shouldn't be caught (whether agreed with or not) is only going to cause more problems, not make anything better. The really bad part is that the ripple effect from it will end up hurting current shark/ray fishing that well all love and that has made this site/group so great. That's what worries me the most.
Tim?
Dave,
Don't you go by Tim sometimes? Lol, sorry man :(
It's been a rough week already...
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I'll also publish this as a separate thread. Maybe we should make it a sticky.
Dear Mr. Dorman,
Your email was forwarded to me for response, thank you for your interest in shark fishing and White Shark protections.
You are correct that targeting White Sharks is illegal and that if you accidentally hook one, you should release it immediately upon identification. While there are restrictions on certain commercial gear types for White Sharks, CDFW does not have specific recreational gear restrictions to prohibit targeting White Sharks. It is important to note, however, that some municipalities have implemented local codes that may restrict certain gear types in certain areas. You would need to check with the local law enforcement to ensure there are not different rules in your area. Following are more specific responses to your individual questions:
1. Are there any restrictions beyond normal DFW regulations as to the size or type of fishing equipment and leaders that would constitute targeting? No, since it is legal to take other species of shark any legal gear is allowed when shark fishing.
2. Are there any restrictions beyond normal DFW regulations as to the size or type of baits used that would constitute targeting? No, any bait legal to use while shark fishing is allowed.
3. Since we are fishing from shore, mostly at night, it's virtually impossible to identify a fish until you have it in very shallow water or on the sand. If we identify a fish as being a Great White in this situation, are we supposed to cut the lines immediately and then have no further contact with the fish? Correct, you should immediately cut the lines and release a White Shark as soon as you can identify it. Further handling or bringing a White Shark to the boat or shore would be a violation.
4. Wouldn't it be better for the health of the fish to remove the hook and leader from its mouth or untangle the leader from around the fish since many times sharks will turn and twist and get the line wrapped all around them? While it is helpful to cut the leader as close to the hook as possible, or cut the hook itself, the additional handling required to remove the hook completely could be harmful to the shark. Since it is not legal to intentionally land or continue interacting with a White Shark once you have identified it, releasing it in the quickest way possible is the best option. In most cases, the shark will shed the hook quickly and while the hook is still in the shark’s mouth it does not prevent the shark from continuing to feed.
5. If we land a Great White and remove the hook and leader, or if we cut the line close to shore, what do we do if we can see the fish is struggling? We've all caught fish that put up great fights, but required assistance in the surf for a couple of minutes to recuperate before they could swim off on their own. Are we allowed to assist the fish or are we supposed to watch a fish possibly die because we are legally prevented from touching the fish? The most important thing to consider in a situation like this is your own safety. If you find any shark that is beached, whether or not you initially caught it, any efforts to assist it should take into account both potential injuries to the people assisting and to the shark itself.
6. The vast majority of us practice CPR. Catch, Photo, Release. The usual photo is a picture of the person who caught the fish kneeling next to it. Would we be in violation of not releasing the fish immediately if we posed for a photo or are we limited to just a photo taken while we are removing the hook and leader? Yes, this would be a violation. If you intentionally bring a White Shark to the shore or a boat after identifying it or retain a White Shark after landing and identifying it, you would be in violation of take prohibitions. Remember, releasing the shark as quickly as possible is important for its survival.
7. Kayaking out big baits with higher capacity reels and short boat style rods is another question. A number of shark fishermen will do this to target larger/pelagic sharks like Mako and Thresher that don't ordinarily come into shallow water that aren't reachable by hand casting. Is using this type of equipment or technique evidence of targeting? Unless the angler is specifically pursuing a White Shark, then there is nothing in State regulations that would prohibit using a legal shark fishing gear from a kayak to target other shark species that are legal to take.
8. Finally, what about recent activity? Is fishing in a spot where Great Whites have been caught recently evidence of targeting? Wildlife officers have to look at many factors when trying to determine if a person is targeting White Shark. Fishing in an area where White sharks have been seen recently is not in itself proof that the person is targeting a White Shark. If, however, you see a White Shark then actively attempt to catch it or chum for it, then you would be in violation.
Thank you again for your interest and for taking the time and care to ensure that your fishing activities are legal. Please let me know if you have any follow up questions or concerns.
Sincerely,
John Ugoretz
Environmental Program Manager
Pelagic Fisheries and Ecosystem Program
California Department of Fish and Wildlife
1933 Cliff Drive, Suite 9
Santa Barbara, CA 93109
(805) 568-1226
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Maybe we should write the president and have him tell the commies to take them off the no target list like the rest of the country did.
Aren't they still Federally protected?
Federally protected yes, stamped with a "no target, no touch" rule, No. you can catch them on the east coast with no issues.
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Maybe we should write the president and have him tell the commies to take them off the no target list like the rest of the country did.
Aren't they still Federally protected?
Federally protected yes, stamped with a "no target, no touch" rule, No. you can catch them on the east coast with no issues.
Probably aren't as many tree huggers on the east coast crying about it like here in CA. Then again, there probably aren't as many juvies in waist deep water where everyone is swimming either.